Flash Team

I'm very happy that Macromedia has taken this unprecedented step of updating a Flash release -- not once, but twice. I'm also pleased that Macromedia seems to be making an earnest effort to reach out to developers and address their concerns. These are major first steps that (if carried through) will go a long way in winning back the people who were put off by the quality of the MX 2004 release.

I think the next positive step would be a public bug database where users can submit and search for bugs in the current release of Flash. Ellipsis fixed 100+ bugs; but many, many bugs remained unfixed and will likely never be fixed since Macromedia is now working on the next version of the program. The data components (Pro version), for example, were not touched at all in this update. It would be such a time and money saver if developers had a place to go where they could find out exactly what works in this product and what doesn't.

Yes, I know, there's that seldom updated list of "known issues", but that list is far from complete. And yes, I know, there are the forums. But what we really need is something dedicated exclusively to bug tracking: submitted by developers, confirmed by developers, and suggested work-arounds provided by developers. If such a thing existed, it seems it would benifit both the developers and Macromedia (imagine an enormous free QA department).

As far as the Ellipsis release, I'm disappointed. I feel that the issues that were addressed were minor annoyances that could be worked around with a little effort. My biggest hope was in the improvement of compile time, but that seems to be a very minor improvement. Overall, I would say that this release did not live up to all the pomp and circumstance that preceded it.

Hi "Flash Developer" -

I'm glad you are happy with some of the things that we have done. We are looking into the idea of an open bugbase, however, I have to make a few points about the challenges that doing so would present.

First of all, there are over 750,000 Flash users, which means that we get a huge number of items submitted as bugs. Our dev and QA teams must scrub through every submission to determine whether it is an actual bug, an enhancement request, a plain old feature request, a report that doesn't have enough detail to explore (very common), spam, a duplicate submission, or a number of other things. With an application that has such a large number of users, the bugbase can quickly grow into the tens of thousands before everything is combed through and organized by the Flash team.

To be honest, without all of the organization done by dev and QA, the full bugbase would be of little use to you guys.

That said, we're still trying to figure something out that would be beneficial to everyone. Many options would be very costly and time-consuming on our part, but I'm sure we can come up with something.

Regarding the comment that you made - "[...] but many, many bugs remained unfixed and will likely never be fixed since Macromedia is now working on the next version of the program." - I understand why you might think this, but it is actually very far from the truth. In fact, one of the reasons that we did not fix some of the bugs, as was explained in Mike Chambers' logged in article, is because doing so would require a substantial re-write to the core engine of the tool and could have opened up a large number of other bugs unintentionally. One of our goals with Ellipsis was to alleviate pain, not to introduce new pain - which is very difficult to do when you start re-writing low-level code. The issues with the library panel are a great example. As Mike pointed out in his article, we did figure out a fix that would allow us to avoid re-writing the low-level code, but it introduced some new problems - and we really did not want to do that with this release. Believe me, if we could have fixed it with this release, we would have. It will be addressed in 8Ball for sure.

Long story - short, our first wave of development on 8Ball is almost fully dedicated to fixing the remaining bugs. We are working on these things right now.

If you have any specific bugs that you think we missed, please send them to me. Believe me, we are fully dedicated to getting all of these addressed.

Thanks,
Mike Downey
Technical Product Manager, Flash
mdowney@macromedia.com

Dear Mike.

> First of all, there are over 750,000 Flash users, which means
> that we get a huge number of items submitted as bugs.

Well, if we know what bugs are already submitted, you won't get "a huge number of items".

> Our dev and QA teams must scrub through every submission
> to determine whether it is an actual bug, an enhancement ...
> the bugbase can quickly grow into the tens of thousands
> before everything is combed through and organized by the
> Flash team.

Let us do the job for you. It is only the question of concept for that bugtracker. It should not be available to everybody for example. Only for registered users.

> To be honest, without all of the organization done by dev and
> QA, the full bugbase would be of little use to you guys.

I simply don't agree.

In fact a public bugtracker could have many benefits for you (as for us users). Combined with an ratingsystem you could figure out which are the most painfull bugs in flash and what the users really want to be fixed. It could be a place where users submit workarounds for existing bugs. So less users will get you on the nerves.

Please look at http://www.updatestage.com

The bugtracker for MM Director (maintained by ONE PERSON).
It works, it is the first site i look at if i think i have discovered a bug in director. And (normally) i get a solution there. There is no place for Flash i can go to.

Despite that, i am very happy about 7.2. It is much faster to work with and it is more stable too. Thank you.

with regards

Klaas Kielmann

P.S. the library panel is pain since Flash 6.

Thank you, all of us was waiting it for too many time; i'm glad.
I found this a long time ago and i wanna tell you

Our Macromedia, Who art in San Francisco, hallowed be Thy formats; Thy Studio come; Thy will be done on desktop as it is in web.
Give us this day our last
Flash Player, and forgive us our CSS not standard as we forgive your bugs; and lead us not into Adobe, but deliver us from Frontpage.

but i dont remember the webpage where I found it :(

Thanks for the update!

Hi everyone -

Thanks for the tip on the Director community site that does bug tracking. We'll check it out. Do any of you know of any major software vendors that have a good public bugtracker that we could take a look at for reference? Does anyone else do what you'd like us to do?

Also, I know the Library panel has been a pain for a long time. In fact, everyone knows the library panel has been a pain for a long time! ;-) We are already working on some great new solutions for the Library panel that everyone seems to want. We've been showing this to a few customers and they really like it. Again, you won't see anything until 8Ball, but I think you'll like it. The change still requires a big rewrite of some underlying code, but that is well under way.

Regarding localized versions, I don't have the schedule in front of me - but they will be coming soon, within the next few weeks. One of the reasons the localized versions take a couple of weeks longer is because we have to localize so much new documentation.

And thanks for the note on the compiler bug. I have forwarded it to the dev/QA teams.

Cheers,
MD

Kudos! Everything is running faster, smoother,
my workflow has improved greatly!

Any chance to make a prediction when 8Ball will be out, still the 18months product cycle or was everything messed because the Marketing team made you release FMX 2004 too early?

Best regards,
Daniel

Hi, I have posted great news on http://flash-ripper.com site (in Russian).

Thank you for great job guys!

Erm -- when you are installing the Updater, it prompts you to turn off all Extensions and then turn them back on after installation. As soon as you acknowledge, the window closes and installation resumes. The "Cancel" button did nothing to stop the process.

So, did I trash my installation? How do I recover? Is it possible to add Installation instructions in a read-me? (I read read-me's, and even if I don't, if there is one, then it's my fault if I mess something up)

This was posted earlier by Mike Downey:

>> BTW - The Pro version of Flash is by far the most common,
>> so yes, we have addressed many issues that relate
>> specifically to Flash Pro.

That is an outright lie. I see one bug fix related specifically to the Pro version. One Fix?!?? Why weren't the issues with the data components addressed? Those of us who paid for the Professional version were really screwed by Macromedia. We should be able to upgrade to the next major version for free.

Am I the only one who can't get my download speed above 3.1KB/s. Is the server swamped or is my ISP's high speed garbage?

Hi Ron,

Don't worry about losing the extensions. If you did not disable them before running the updater, and found that they're missing after the updater, they're safe in User Configuration Backup folder in your application root folder and you can retrieve them back.

These are the ones that are likely to be missing if you did not disable the extensions:

Any components that are installed in the same folders with the components that come with Flash such as UI components, Data Components, and Media Components.

All the common libraries files, templates, and fla files that are saved in Samples folder. Third party Importers on the Mac.

To get back these missing files, please browse to User Configuration Backup folder in the application root folder, browse to your user name, and copy the missing files (do not copy the components, libraries, templates, or Importers that are shipped with Flash) and paste them back to user level configuration as followed:
Typical path on Windows:
C:\Documents and Settings\\Local Settings\Application Data\Macromedia\Flash MX 2004\\Configuration
Note: Local Settings is a hidden folder, so if you don't see it, please open Folder Options in control panel and set it to view hidden files and folders.

Typical path on Mac:
HD:Users::Library:Application Support:Macromedia:Flash MX 2004::Configuration

Daniel -

We can't announce the schedule for 8Ball yet because it is too early (and there are a bunch of business repercussions involved with publicly announcing release schedules). However, I will say that we are spending more time on 8Ball than we did on MX 2004, if that helps. ;-)

Jeff -

Sorry about the data components. We just couldn't fit any significant updates into the Ellipsis schedule. We do have plans for 8Ball though. If you have specific problems with the existing components, please email them to me so that I can make sure they are already known and are a priority. We may also be able to assist you now, depending on the problems.

Regarding you being "screwed by Macromedia" - I'm sorry you feel that way. It seems that a lot of people are very pleased with the improvements that we made to Flash with Ellipsis, but I didn't expect it to exceed everybody's expectations. We know that we made mistakes with 2004 and we have made a VERY significant effort with this release to fix as many issues as possible. Unfortunately Ellipsis was not a full cycle release, so we were limited to addressing the issues that affected the largest number of people.

Again - and this goes to all of you - please email me directly with any bugs or problems that you would like to see addressed in 8Ball. If we don't know about the problem, we can't fix it.

Regards,
MD

--------------------------------
Mike Downey
Technical Product Manager, Flash
mdowney@macromedia.com

Thank you San Khong -- my components and help files are back safe and sound. Now -- how should I have known to disable all my extensions before starting the Updater? Is it on the MM website, or in a Read-Me file, or where?

BTW, I think this is a really good effort. Restores my confidence to a great extent. It's not so much that people never make mistakes, it's how they correct them that matters most. I think this updater shows considerable "corporate grace" by MM.

> Now -- how should I have known to disable all
> my extensions before starting the Updater? Is
> it on the MM website, or in a Read-Me file, or
> where?

It's on the website. The updater also pops up a window during installation telling you to disable all extensions before continuing -- both Mac and Windows.

huge update,working with flash is great again,didn´t experience any big bugs anymore,THANKS A LOT for it :)
my biggest complaint wasn´t fixed though:
in flash mx you had a seperate history/undo redo for each timeline,in mx 2004 it seems like there is one for the whole fla,so when i undo several steps it makes me swap from one mc to the other,which is really confusing.
i hope that´s one of the things which couldn´t be done for ellipsis but will be for 8ball,otherwise working on graphic intensive projects is a pain.
Besides that i read´(and see here) that you´re listening more to your user base,which is awesome.

I heard from many people that they didn´t like type casting,just like me.
i know you don´t have to use it,but i really don´t see a reason to use it at all.
it makes the language more low level and the code more awkward to read and write.
the debugger doesn´t seem to catch type casting errors always and even if it would i think its a step back to introduce type casting in a language which could do without (and i know a load of people who think the same).
i can only think of a few circumstances (like overloading) where it would be needed but genrally its no good to introduce this as part of the improved as (as its a step backwards imho as i said) .
flash only reached such a big base as its easy to get into.
things forcing the developers to code in a way they don´t want to are crap.
i wish the flash player gets better performance and more desinging tools are added to the authoring environment instead of adding stuff which force developers to code in a certain way.
I would only accept such things if they would bring a huge performance difference compared to normal coding but i can´t see that type casting would bring this (for example).

Brief and simple- Ellipsis and I are happy now. I went through the building applications with components and I think there is a bracket missing in one part of the code- but other than that- it is an excellent and thorough walk through for several of the components. My FMX2004 is also faster and lighter now and responsive to me selecting stuff. I'm enjoying my new and improved Flash!
Thank you guys for the hard work.

MX04 is like a new program for me because of the script pinning issue being fixed. I built a SWF panel to make backups (doing Save As so everything is saved properly), and although I've been still weiry of not using it with pinned scripts, it got a good test today as I forgot to make a backup before exiting Flash. I opened my FLA again and it was still all there!

This is not trivial, as I lost 8 hours of work previously due to the script pinning issue. So, thanks!

There are still things I would love to change, but Ellipsis makes MX04 nice to work with.

Not sure if enough has been said about docs, but there is a significant improvement there. Yes, there are still issues, but there is a lot more detail that should have always been there, ie. inheritted events, methods, and properties. That makes looking up info a lot easier. Although it does make some of the components look a little awkward in the left pane. An item like the Button no longer has a click item in the list - it's inheritted from SimpleButton. It makes sense, but referencing can be a little slower. But honestly, I can live with one less item in the left pane, if it means a full set of items in the class doc.

Good job.

I was hoping that in this update a problem I have had with the HELP PANEL since v7 would be fixed. Basically the panel loads, but no content appears in the main window despite the contents being visible on the left!

The Elipsis release was a big disappointment for us. Granted, there were some improvements but nothing that was significant to projects that are ActionScript heavy or using Flash forms, despite comments to the contrary in the release notes.

ActionScript compile times are still way too long. Using task manager in windows to track "CPU Time" in an average development day for me, Flash.exe is showing usage in the order of 2.5 - 4 hours! That's a serious amount of my time waiting for an "Exporting Flash Movie" progress bar (which incidentally has a cancel button that doesn't work until the end). Memory usage is outrageous: launching our app in test mode causes Flash.exe to gobble up to 400Mb RAM!

You might be thinking "What sort of app is this?!" Well, this is simply an app that uses Flash forms, v2 components and remoting - no fancy graphics. 12 forms to be exact. Performance of apps using Flash forms degrades *rapidly* with the addition of forms (we regularly see the "A script in this movie is causing Flash Player to run slowly" on a 1.6Ghz P4). Why must all forms be loaded and instantiated at start up? Since the screen objects do not appear in the library, I have no control over this.

Overall, I am extremely disappointed with the time it took for Ellipsis to appear. I have read several posts from the Flash Team that site reasons for the delay like "core changes required", "major rewrites required" etc. Then why was a release that seems to be so wrong put out in the first place? Why was a release made with so many obvious bugs, bugs that surly should have been mostly caught by internal QA?

With respect the to the public bug database, I believe this is something that would benefit the product greatly. I too share the feeling that submitting a bug report via the current e-mail submission ends up in /dev/null. Sun Microsystems operate a great open database for Java:

http://developer.java.sun.com/servlet/SessionServlet?url=/developer/bugParade/index.jshtml

In addition to this, the Oracle support system has what seems to be an extremely effective filter that gets you to summarise your problem in 80 characters and then performs a search of their database, presenting the top 5 findings prior to submission. If your issue is not there, then you can go on to raise a case. If your bug is already there then no need to waste your time or MM's (however, you could add your vote at this point). All of which avoids e-mail, so no spam.

CL.

will you solve this problem in later updates?

http://www.macromedia.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=194&threadid=865114&forumid=15

MM,

I'm having alot of the same problems that Chris Lowe has outlined. I am using Flash MX 2004 Pro on a daily basis to develop ActionScript 2.0 heavy applications and I've often run into this problem.
The problem is outlined on this document listed on the MM website. See - http://www.macromedia.com/support/flash/ts/documents/script_loop.htm
This document was written in 2001 and I'm sure with the evolution of Flash it could do with an update.
I am a certified Flash MX developer and I'm aware of the usual methods of handling large amounts of data etc.
Could MM please release a technote on the best practices on how to avoid this problem while developing the new breed of ActionScript 2.0 heavy flash app's.
Please show this solution implemented in a AS2 Class file.

Cheers lads,

Derek.

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