JD on EP

Shouldnt this be called Adobe the next MS? How can you compare Apollo to Microsoft, thats like Apples and Oranges.

But You Have a good point and im sooo excited about Apollo :D WAY TO GO ADOBE!

[jd sez: True, but Nat wondered whether Apollo might be the thing which changes everything.]

Apollo? or the developers whom - use - Apollo?

I'm excited at the possiblity of what Apollo has on offer, but before one starts pairing it against the might of Microsoft, there needs to be a discussion on what the developers are going to do with it, not what it can potentially achieve.

I could potentially be a millionare, but i'm realistically a poor coder who holds up the sign "Will code FLEX for food" :)

I'm seriously trying my hardest to find whats going to be built with it once its in our hot hands? maybe its top secret and therefore unable to be told in public - which i can see a point of view. Yet, for it to truly reach greatness, a discussion needs to be had abot Apollo abstract from the Development community and not just in case study form either.. something bigger, something that makes both cames (business and developers) go "I want that x2 please, oh I have to have Apollo? thats fine, now when can I have it"

:)

Exciting times ahead me thinks.

Scott, I agree that it's hard to see things really clearly before they arrive... lots of us see different pieces of what might be possible, so when a whole bunch of people are excited by a particular direction, then that's a good sign.

... hmm, just had a thought... for a long time only Windows had desktop presence, a continuing willingness among consumers to host Microsoft code... Macromedia Flash Player was the next big bit of desktop presence (the browsers were various)... later Google, Yahoo and others continue to invest heavily in toolbars and other bits of continuing desktop presence... with Apollo, anyone can get a continuing connection with their work's audience... desktop presence will be democratized. Maybe that's one way to look at it.

(btw, I've been reading about the MXNA feeds, but I haven't got any solid info yet. I remember Charlie Arehart seemed to be in a similar situation in June 2003, but I'm still trying to trace this down.)

If Adobe can master in energising the right developers out there, then yeah we could see some interesting things. I'd hate to think of Apollo being lost in translation as it offers up - while in brief format - a lot of potential. Just keep it away from the "Yet another Yahoo Maps / Google Maps application" space.

Put in the hands of say PeopleSoft? SAP (well Muse has illustrated this I guess) and it should by rights illustrate demand.

Its good though to see companies like Primavera and such biting the FLEX bullet, hopefully the Apollo one will come aswell.

I will say this, Microsofts hardest job in the next couple of years is keeping Windows Vista relevant to the average punter out there. As you put it, democracy will probably decide the overall outcome.

Me, i'm keeping fingers in all barrells as then I'll be agile enough to cope with new demand and a want on new experiences.

Content is no longer king, context is!

(Yeah MXNA thing will sort itself out I guess)

I read a lot of comments about Apollo and there seems to be this general idea that since Apollo is new we need to build new things with it. Of course that's an option, and an exciting one at that. But I think right off the bat Apollo is going to be great for re-building many of the apps we already have today.

I'm sure there will be many software companies out there that build mainly for the Windows environment that are seeing the continuing relevance of Linux and Apple computers. So to begin writing their existing applications for those platforms is a large investment. But, for much less money they could redo their application in Apollo, have one code base, and support all three platforms.

So what is Apollo going to be used for? In my opinion it will be 90% existing applications and 10% totally new apps that no one has thought of yet.

And I still here a lot of bemoaning that Apollo isn't open source, blah, blah, blah. That's going to be inconsequential when the boss comes in and says, "We need to convert everything to Apollo so that we can expand into other platforms."

Oz: Sap are illustrating your point now, with the re-invention of mySAP with Apollo. Not much really has changed except a fresh coat of paint, expansion into a wider platform base and last i heard they were giving over a bit more control in terms of SDK to the enterprise elite whom choose SAP for their various ERP solutions.

Apollo has the capability (again only from surface level reading) to bring balance back to the force in terms of passive approach to existing system(s) - while yet looking at the harmony of combining internet, publishing platforms (PDF etc) and third-party existing web soup all under the one roof.

Its shaping up in terms of being powerful and I'd probably say "balance back to the force" would be my catch phrase for Apollo.

That being said, Microsoft are playing in the same space and hints like "WPF/E" are only getting started. You'll note in the Channel9 video cast that they kept talking abotu WPF/E and things like "Oh we won't have 3D yet.." .. ie the key word search is for "yet.." ...

Glad I'm not the CEO of either company, as it must be getting hot under the collar ;)

It's great to see someone like SAP getting onboard. It's great to be able to pitch a technology and say, "And oh, by the way, SAP is doing it." Heads perk up with statements like that.

You're right about the CEOs are probably facing a lot of challenges. They probably feel like generals in a long protracted war. From what I see of MS their biggest drawback is themselves. They can't just take WPF/E and run with it because that might hurt one or both of the sacred cows - Windows and Office. Whereas Adobe can pretty much unleash the hounds because their business model doesn't seem to have any internal conflicts.

My bet, MS will chicken out and WPF/E will never reach it's full potential and Apollo will dominate the desktop environment by 2010. But I'm an optimist. :-)

Scott: It's great to see someone like SAP getting onboard. It's great to be able to pitch a technology and say, "And oh, by the way, SAP is doing it." Heads perk up with statements like that.

You're right about the CEOs are probably facing a lot of challenges. They probably feel like generals in a long protracted war. From what I see of MS their biggest drawback is themselves. They can't just take WPF/E and run with it because that might hurt one or both of the sacred cows - Windows and Office. Whereas Adobe can pretty much unleash the hounds because their business model doesn't seem to have any internal conflicts.

My bet, MS will chicken out and WPF/E will never reach it's full potential and Apollo will dominate the desktop environment by 2010. But I'm an optimist. :-)